Voila je ouvre se topic pour que vous metez des cartes des fresques tout sur votre peuple bon je commence

SERB or similar(Sorb,Serp,Surb,Sarb,Surp,..) in diferent languages means:

In Vedic book
Srb-inda= ruler of Serbs, Serb's header

Sanskrit
*family, generation,kin, kind
*brother's people from same mother and same father
*people above others
*famouse, freely,sizeable people
*Serb=brother( bright, light, independent,educated,witted
* Serbs=people (of freely sunny force, brave brothers and relatives)

Ser=family, seed,tribe, relatives
Sabva= living, habitation, duration
Serm=nation, tribe for same root (in slavic languages still Semy,Simya=tribe,lineage)
In serbian toponims:Semberiya,Serberiya,Sarbadiya...Srem..
Sarm=digression,uprising,progress

Sarbha or Sardha=plurality,potence of people from same roots, brothers's people
Serbian todays words: Sarba,Syarbi,Serbi,Sorbi,Surbi,,Serbadiya,Sorbadiy a,Surbadiya,Sjarbadiya,Sirbadiya


Sr+br =justifier,defender,defendant,leader, header,ruler (handler)
Old terms for serbs are: Syabri,Sibri,Serbri,Sobri,Subri, Srersi etc..
Sr=to shine, to light, to prove oneself,..to be sightly,to be venerable,to be independent..Sr (another meaning)=fast,strong,agile...Sara= arow...
Br=to fight, to kill, to militate,to defeat enemies
Srmbh=to shine, to light, to prove oneself, to be clearer, to be more light

Hindu:
Sahrab=to protect, to defeat

Oldpersian
SARBAR =cut-throat (cutter of heads) or Supreme Mighty man who is cutter
(SAR means head,headship, seniority, priority, independence...till persian BAR means part of, snip, segment,coupon, steak.)

Armenian
Surp or Surb means holy, sacred ;Srbuhi, Srpuhi, Surpuhi is an Armenian girls name meaning holy woman (Ser.. is conected to love.)

Chaldean:
Sarab = zeal, ardency,lightness,prodigality,vigor,activita ( on latin aestus torridus)
Surab , Surah = The Lord, Master,Ruler
Sar,Sarb = gentleman,knight,Tzar (King over Kings), independent man, lightly or lightened man
Ser = crown; Seraphim= Ruler, Archont

Jewish:
Sar, Sarb = gentleman, Lord, knight,Tzar (King of Kings),independent and lightened(lightly) man


Arabian:
Sarb or Srb =giant, titan,brave,unmanageable man,potence,colossus,who vanquish others

Turkish
Sirb ( also Serf, Sirf,Sirfiche)=people from same kin or roots; free people, brave people, unmanageable disobedient people, warlike people..------->
Serber(Sefer)= war

In time of Ottomans in Balcan, Vidin's area (present East Serbia and west Bulgaria) was called from Turks "Sirfiche or Sarbhazy" = serbian land.
Serb was for Turks "man who you must kill as enemy of Turks and Mohamed's faith, who is disobedient to Turk rule".In Vidin's area many Serbs ,in avoiding a death, start to present themselves by another name.

Old Russian:
Syabr,Syabrich, Sebro (around river Volga) =familly, kin, relatives

MaloRussian:
Sirbin=man who is the most free, wittiest, smartiest, the most diveine
In one song Sirbin sirbs ( as verb):domineer,comand...(not work on foelds but fight to enemies)
"Ој,Сирбине Сирбињенку
Ми друг дорогењки!
Покин Сирбу Сирбовати
Визми Сирп види в стип,
Пшениченку жати..."

VelikoRussian (GreatRussian)
Serbi (plural of serb)=wholesome,burly,stout-hearted.heroic,mightly people

ByeloRussian ( whiteRussian):
Syabrin = kin, brother, brother in low,from one home

In Ryazan Gubernia:
Sereb (Shereb)=neighborou, good friend, cousine

In Twerian Gubernia:
Serb = witty, racional,lightsome,agile

In Orlow's and Thul's Gubernia:
Serb= hero, free man, brave man..

Upper Lusatian:
Sorab, Sorb =man who is the most free, wittiest, smartiest, the most diveine

Sarbana,Sorbana and Sabana in India:

German geographists Johan Daniel Ritters ("Alteste meisnische Geschichte bis uaf...",Lepizig,1780, seit 15), says:

"From the top of hill Mera in India goes diferrent branches as Hymavat, Henakutash, Nishades- on which lived cruel and skin-clothed people Serbs or Srbs."

Russian writer Moroskin(Istoričko-kritečeskija izsledovanija o Rusah i Slavjanah, page 163-173)says:


"From Hymalays to Hindukush mountains lived Serbian people, under name Syemskrit or Serbs".

He also wrote that Serbs lived in Duani area, as Syembs or Serbs..
Behind main Hindu states -Praziya and Gangariya, there was Great State SARBARSKA ( Sarbar state) and another one was in cpastal India, under name PANOVSKA (Panonian state: pan = Lord on serbian and slavic languages).


According to Claudii Ptolemei (Geographiae...1513) and Codex venetus 517/R...some Hindian toponyms are also:
Sabrana- place
Sorbanus, river
Sarabus, river
Sarba, place
Sorbae, region
Sarabi, river
Sibrium,place
Sabrarae, region


Here are a few of the earliest quotations from well known ancient geographers and historians:

• Rig Veda - ancient religious Sanskrit text (3000-1500 b.c.)in book VIII., 32., 2.:
  

"2 Strong God, he slew Anarsani, Srbinda, Pipru, and the fiend, Ahisuva, and loosed the floods." From all the European peoples the Serbs are the only race from the construction of the wording of their name, according to the Austrian sanskritologist Walter Wust who are composed in the Vedic hymns as the characteristic SRBINDA, in which almost letter to letter is identical to the modern form SRBENDA used by Balkan Serbs.
In the Vedic manuscripts, Wust interprets, SRBINDA as its own original to say patented name with a predetermined meaning. Which is in complete harmony to thinking of today’s SRBENDA expression in Serbs, because Srbenda is always the best, the most respected, most brave, the greatest for respecting tradition: in short a man who is used and shown as an example to others.

• Herodotus (11,6) (5th century BC), and Diodor from Sicily (1,30) mention the lake named Serbonis (Σερβυνιδοζ) in lower Egypt. However taking the large distances into the account it is highly unlikely that today's Serbs have anything to do with that particular toponym.
  

• Strabo (63 - 19 BC): "the river Kanthos/Skamandros is called Sirbis (Sirbika) by the natives." ( Strabonis rerum geographicarum libri septendicini, Basileza 1571 s. 763).
  

• Tacitus (ca. 50 AD): described the Serboi tribe near the Caucasus, close to the hinterland into the Black Sea. Many consider this theory as a very probable one taking some distant linguistic similarities with today's Caucausus people's such as Ingushi, Chechens etc.
  

• Pliny (69-75 AD): "beside the Cimerians live Meotics, Valians, Serbs (Serboi), Zingians, Psesians." (Historia naturalis, VI, c. 7 & 19 Leipzig 1975). It coincides with the Tacitus's view on Serbian ancient homeland among the Iranian peoples of the Caucausus.
  

• Ptolemy (150 AD): "between the Keraunian mountains and the river Pa,(RA on latinic letters) live the Orineians, Valians and Serbs." (Geographia V, s. 9).
  
• Ptolemy also mention the city in Pannonia named Serbinum (present day Gradiška in Republika Srpska, Bosnia and Herzegovina). This well known ancient scientist one more time points out to the Caucasus placing Serbs close to Black Sea riviera.
  

• In the third century Roman emperor Licinius (born in Illiria, present Serbia) referred to the Carpathians as 'Montes Serrorum' ("Serb mountains"). This also sounds reasonable taking that South Carpathians end in present Eastern Serbia, colliding with the Balkan Mountains.
  

When did start migrations of Serbs from Hindia in two main directions (west, north)? Scientists don't share unique opinion...
In serbian folks songs and according to serbian folk time-line it was before 7516 years.
According to some scientiest, it could be before 6100 years ago..
Folowing map (according to hystorics Djordjevic and drown by arhitect G.Hadžic)shows main direction of migrations in 5000 years ago
and names of new serbian founded states:

before 3560 Serbania (present Iranian platou and Asia Minor)
before 3500 New Sarbarska
before 3300 Sirbidiya,Sirbiriya,Sirbya (present Siberia)

Other numbers I cannot see exactly on map, but I will trаnlate to you cyrilic titlles:
Сеобе Срба из прапостојбине Индије=Migrations of Serbs from ancient homeland India
Сирбирија=Sirbir land (Sirbiria)
Сирбидија=Sirbid land (Sirbidia)
Сирбија=Sirb land (Sirbia)
Сербанија= Serb Lord's land (Serbania)
Нова Сарбарска = New Sarbar land (New Sarbaria)
Србија = Serbia
Србија =Serbia
Друга Сирбија = Second Sirbia
Велика Србија=Great Serbia
Индијски океан = Indian ocean
Атлантски Океан = Atlantic ocean
Северни ледени океан =North ice ocean

According to serbian historics (Nikolajevic, Milojevic,Lukin-Lazic,Rajic) west migration branch mad NEW SARBAR STATE on Tigar/Purath Valley and Asia Minor..

Acording to french egyptologists Maspero Gaston ("Historie ancienne des peuples d' orient", 1894-1899), Serbs from Sarbar state ( and specially from Asia Minor) penetrades to Egypt in three waves..He said that , according to egypt hieroglific letters, that ( in 16 century BC)in Lybia and Mauritaniya was white people, with light eyes, with long hair and bear.They were dangerous for Egypt Empire..and Egyptians called them " King's shepards"- ones who ruled in Lower Egypt.(1730-1580 BC)

Mysterious "Hiksos", according to Walter A.Fireservis Junior (director of State Museum in Washington) are same descripted: aryian people , in migration from India, good warriors on horses, ones who are named "King's Sheperds" in egypt hieroglific letter. Sadly Jews trying to present Hykosos as Semit Jews is, simply, sadly.

His FIFTEENTH DYNASTY consists of six foreign so-called 'Sheperd' or Hyksos kings, whose domination lasted 284 years. The SIXTEENTH DYNASTY consisted of Shepherd kings again, thirty-two in number totaling 518 years. Lastly, in the SEVENTEENTH DYNASTY Shepherd kings and Theban kings reigned concurrently, forty-three of each line altogether 151 years.

http://www.touregypt.net/hsecin1a.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/fifteenth-dynasty-of-egypt
http://personalwebs.myriad.net/steveb/egypt/kings.html

Avaris,was the ancient capital of the Hyksos dynasties in Egypt... Located in the northeastern region of the Nile Delta ..the Hyksos heavily fortified the city and ruled the country using technology never before seen by the ancient Egyptians, specifically horses and chariots.

http://www.answers.com/topic/avaris
http://www.christianhospitality.org/...-local-map.JPG

Changes brought by the Hyksos, especially in warfare and relations with western Asia

http://www.trinity.edu/mgarriso/Egyp...ermediate.html

HYKSOS or RULERS OF FOREIGN LANDS (MIDDLE BRONZE AGE)

http://www.bu.edu/anep/ANET.html#MB2

The Hyksos were not a nation, but were composed of various peoples who united and moved into Egypt’s northern fertile region around 1656 BC. The names of the Hyksos kings are known, but they remain elusive figures to mainstream history. To the left is a rare graphic of a Hyksos king, but it is not known which of their listed rulers he was. It confuses matters that the Hyksos population was greatly increased as other migrant peoples came to join them in Egypt, among these were the survivors of the two great cataclysms of the mid-late 17th Century, determined to make a better life for themselves in the stable Hyksos region of the Nile Delta. Some of these survivors, who made up the Hyksos numbers, had come from the widespread, sea-faring kingdom which we know as Atlantis: they came from amidst the Minoans of Crete and the Aegean islands (Middle Minoan III); from the Mid-Cycladic peoples; the Middle Helladic peoples of mainland Greece (the ‘Pelasgian’ of Greek myth). Others among the Hyksos came from Canaan. The land of the Phoenicians (modern Lebanon) made up their priestly class. From western Turkey (Asia Minor) also came the Ephesans and also the proto-Trojans (the city was not yet called Troy, but was almost certainly then an outpost of Atlantean power). From north-eastern Turkey (Anatolia) came the Hittite-Hyperboreans.

http://www.thecreativeuniverse.org/MOSES.htm

Lake Serbonis in Egypt is very interesting story- Herodotus wrote:

...after Jenysus the Syrians again come in, and extend to Lake Serbonis, near the place where Mount Casius juts out into the sea. At Lake Serbonis, where the tale goes that Typhon hid himself, Egypt begins. Now the whole tract between Jenysus on the one side, and Lake Serbonis and Mount Casius on the other, and this is no small space, being as much as three days' journey, is a dry desert without a drop of water.

http://www.greektexts.com/library/He...ia/eng/48.html

Typhon was egyptian name for Azhdaha (iranian) or Azhdaya (serbian), usually hidden in caves or lakes. In one medieval serbian cript: serbian hero Sava killed WaterSnake (Azdhaya) in lake Serbonis, near Sinay Mountain.
According to (less older) serbian stories, lake Serbonis (Egypt) is conected to tragedy of serbian army who were in whole find death in lake. In russian tales, army was "swalowed" by wet ground (zhivo blato) -story is most known as opera "Ivan Susanjin" ba M.I.Glinka.

Name Serbonian bog or Serbonis confirms the story:

Serbonian Bog (Arabic: مستنقع سربون) relates to the lake of Serbonis (Sirbonis or Serbon) in Egypt. Because sand blew onto it, the Serbonian Bog had a deceptive appearance of being solid land, but was a bog. The term is applied to any situation in which one is entangled from which extrication is difficult. The Serbonian Bog is identified as Sabkhat al [Bardawil], one of the string of Bitter Lakes to the east of the Nile's right branch. It was described in ancient times as a quagmire in which armies were fabled to be swallowed up and lost

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbonian_Bog

Serbonian Bog or Serbonis. A mess from which there is no way of extricating oneself. The Serbonian bog was between Egypt and Palestine. Strabo calls it a lake, and says it was 200 stadia long, and 50 broad; Pliny makes it 150 miles in length. Hume says that whole armies have been lost therein. Typhon lay at the bottom of this bog, which was therefore called Typhon's Breathing Hole

http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary...onian-bog.html

.

One persian batlle against alliance of 20,000 Greek mercenaries, 20,000 Libyans and 60,000 Egyptians was near this place:The passage of the Sinai desert and the marshes of Lake Serbonis cost Artaxerxes dearly....

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/reasse...overeignty.htm

Great poet John Milton sung in Paradise Lost, ii. 592.

(*Lake Serbonis in Egypt. Sand being blown over it by the winds gave it the appearance of solid ground, whereas it was a bog.) "A gulf profound as the Serbonian bog Betwixt Damiata and Mount Cassius old, Where armies whole have sunk."

http://marshall.thefreelibrary.com/E...And-Girls/69-1
http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary...onian-bog.html

And today, I believe this lake is on Northern Sinay .
http://inoutof.org/egypt/cities/EG133472.htm
http://inoutof.org/egypt/cities/EG133472.htm

Diodor Sicillian (Sicilian Greek historian who lived from 90 to 21 BC. He wrote, a world history in 40 books).....had written vivedly about lake Serbonis and the Serbian Campaign into Egypt as did Francesco Maria Appendini (1768-1837 )- an Talian historian and philologist )-in his interesting preface in Stulic’s dictionary.

In the study of Serb pre-history work done by Jovan Deretic, we can find a reference to how the lake seems to receive its name from the pre-historical Serb army who had drowned in it as they returned from an attack on Egypt. But oposyte opinion of Ruzica Borisavljevic is very interesting, she does not agree to Mr. Deretic’s thinking, she writes the following:

,,these words have in the old times had their distinctive meaning. Since the lake was called Serb-on-is this name was given to, as an appreciation to God i-on (as-him) is the clue which would mean The Serbian God of Space (region),which tells us that the Serbs knew the region and that Him has saved them.
In Egyptians mithology, Tyfon was a great monster. In latter times,Greek borowed story and in their mythology a story exists where ThunderGod Zeus toppled Typhon into the lake Serbonis. ....then this is proof that the Serbian might did not drown in the lake, but the enemy had.”

Herodot 5th B.C affirms that lake Serbonis in his time was dry but that the tracks could be recognised.which would mean that the lake was very old.


je precise aussi que une grande partie des historiens tcheques russes allemands francais americains italiens arabes grecs romains sont mentionnee les serbes bien avant le 6eme siecle de notre ere y compris qu'il viendront de l'inde

For Sarmathians are coomon opinion that they are iranian tribe , who were kind of "passage" from Iranian to Slavic tribes or names..

Tacitus (ca. 50 AD): described the Serboi tribe near the Caucasus, close to the hinterland into the Black Sea.

Pliny (69-75 AD): "beside the Cimerians live Meotics, Valians, Serbs (Serboi), Zingians, Psesians." (Historia naturalis, VI, c. 7 & 19 Leipzig 1975). It coincides with the Tacitus's view on Serbian ancient homeland among the Iranian peoples of the Caucausus.

Ptolemy (150 AD): "between the Keraunian mountains and the river Pa,(RA on latinic letters) live the Orineians, Valians and Serbs." (Geographia V, s. 9).

In some old maps, tribe of Serbi is near to Caspian sea:

Czech's hystoric Waserot (Mater Verborum , 1o,century AC)considere names of Scythians and sarmathians as identical to name of Serbs and says;
SARMATHAE SIRBI TUM DICTI….
SARMATHAE ZIRBI POPULI


According to Strabo ...in time when King Farnak (son of pontic King Midridat VI),around 70. year BC, was ruler in Bosphor and northwest Asia Minor.. Serbs had own Tcar (OverKing) OBLAK (oldserbian name, means Cloud). Tcar Oblak send to Farnak 20 000 horsewariors as military help in battle between Faenak to own father Midridat VI..Some another serbian ruler from same space, named only Master ( or Sir or Mister) have send military help to Farnka also..

Sirbaces vel Srbaces…Spadines..(Master, Mister) eorum Rex…(their King)[b][59]
Strabon (around 20 years AC) wrote also about "Serbs and Berdjans"(Brdjani= Highlanders = who live on hills=brdo) in west Asia, who live around Don river (brdjans) and Volga River (Serbs).

[/b]Russian writer Veltman says . "To malorussian people belong Slavs and Don's and Zaporosh's Cozaks, who derived from Serbs".River Serpa ( goes to present Volga), area Serbuhov in moskow gubenia, and toponym Serbka north from Odessa...are witnessess of serbian presence in that area.. On the west side of Caspian sea (lake), in Debren's region, one regia is named Serbania. Near to coast of Azov Sea town Berdjansko (means hidhlanders's) some authors considere as last reminiscence of former serbian state here.

Some of sarmatian inscriptions are very simply for reading by serbian cirilic letters:
[size=9] - Retra ( latter it was was great holly place of oldfaith )

- Пераг =Perag

- Mara-m'rati ( old deity of death..)[/size]
Herodotus (4.21) in the 5th century BC placed the Sarmatians of which he knew on the eastern boundary of Scythia beyond the Tanais (Don) on a treeless steppe. Herodotus (4.110-117) reports a tale of the origin of the Sauromatae (Sauromates in the Greek of Herodotus), as the descendants of a band of young Scythian men and a group of Amazons. Herodotus describes the Sarmatians' physical appearance as blond, stout and tanned; in short, pretty much as the Scythians and Thracians were seen by the other classical authors.

Name of famouse female warriors ,, which ancient Greeks called Amazon, and explained as "cutting one breasts" is not covered with proofs.. ..Noone picture exists with woman without one breast..Contrary, .Cult of Big Mother (Velika MAMA) or MATERSVA (mother of all existing) is still wideranged among all Slavic...So, name ( on serbian) AMA could be MAMA(=MOTHER) and AZON is Azow (Asow sea==Meotic lake, or originally Surožsko more= Sea of Surosz,), acording to some linquistics..

Not many serious linguists are willing to take on the name of the Sarmatians professionally, the main problem being the difference between Greek Sauro- and Latin Sar-. Serbian hystoric derived name of Sarmat frrom two serbian words:
1) Sar = Tzar = OverKing , old serbian military and cicvil title
2) Srma (Srmatians) is kind of very gentle and shine goldenlike clue (yarm,thread) for traditional customs fancywork.In serbian language srma or gold has same meaning. And Sarmathians were very rich in gold and they loved to wear a golden details.

This area of Asia Minor( in map above) was divided in many parts (smaller states) in prehistory :


with names from greek language..
Some earlier titles I know for serbian (proto-slavic) history is:

Lyudeya (Lyudi means people in serbian) for Lydia
Hvaliysko more (on serbian from Hvala=thank you)) Azov sea on russian (later Crno more in serbian or Cherno more on rusiian = Black sea) for Pont (Pontic sea)
Rascia or Rasini's land (on serbian ) for Trace
Brigiya ( from serbian Breg=hill, hill's land) for Frygia
Vitiniya ( Vit is same as Vid as Svetovid as Swentovit: God from oldserbian faith) for Bythinia
Triglav's land ( again name fo oldserbian threahedad God Triglax = Troyanus) for Troya

But i think that is most intersting that I begin from ancestors of this small states in map above..from deeper history:


this is turkish map (above)with turkish names for towns in Great Hittits Empire

"Hittites prevailed around Middle and East Anatolia,sometimes around North of Syria and also at Mesepotamia between 1900 and 1200 B.C. They succeeded establishing a systematic government in Anatolia.Hatti people who were one of the small kingdoms in Anatolia were living in Hattusha between 2500 -1900 B.C. "

And the name of Empire was derived from aborigins Hatti ( non-white one).
When tall and lighten haired Aryains came to this Land, aborigins Hatt's treathed them and respect as Gods.
First capital was Hatusha (near Ankara today).

"Hittite Kingdom around 1650 B.C. first and Big Hittite Empire around 1450 B.C.later were established.Hittites made warr for Mediterenian see border and trade with Egiptians at Kadeş (It is in Syria now) for a long time."


In Hitits Empire lived 8 diferrent people ( some white, some not)..it was fedual sistem ..and even they have some kind of Parliament ..remeber that in this time, second great Mighty Empire- Egypt - was state for Pharaons and many slaves.All 8 languages were in official use..


Some socaled Sea People ( probably Europans or Greaks) went to Egipt from Italy with ships,some of them from Anatolia to Egipt on the land,because of migration wave of Sea People which started around 1400 B.C. became faster around 1250 B.C. May be,they were forced to migration by other nationalyties..Scientist think that may be Sea People who past to Egipt from Anatolia distroyed Hittite Empire. (Around 1250 B.C.)
" Hittites used Asurian-Babilion cuneiform writing on clay or wooden tablets.What a pity wooden tablets were lost (fired) until today.It is possible to see thousands of clay tablets which have various, treaties and laws on it at the museums (also at Boğazkale Museum).Besides,It is possible to see also picture explenation style Hyrogliphic writing on the natural rocks which have memorial quality and on the seals of kings."


And lot of stone reliefs in big rock mountains, poetry, Book of law...stayed.













like this for ex.



The Hittites were Indo-European people who seem to have moved south from the Caspian Sea into southern Turkey around 2000 BC, about the same time that the Trojans were moving into Troy and the Greeks were moving into Greece. The Hittites were different from the Semitic people who had lived there before, like the Akkadians, or the Amorites, because the Hittites rode horses and knew how to make chariots and wagons for the horses as well. But pretty soon after the Hittites came to Turkey, the knowledge of horses spread all over West Asia and into Egypt as well.




At some point maybe around 1500 BC, the Hittites also invented a way to smelt iron; that is, a way to take iron ore from the ground and make it into useful tools and weapons. Seeing that this was a very valuable skill, the Hittites kept it a carefully guarded secret for a long time. They made iron tools and weapons and sold them to other people of West Asia, but they would not tell other people how to make them, and so iron remained rare. We still call this period the Late Bronze .

I will not write about hittitts history here, but you must see pics of their "Gods" - Aryan white people :


This big one is God of Fertility, and small one is hat's king who brings gifts..
But, Hiitis God weare traditional serbian shoes : Opanak (singular) or Opantsi ( plural) , most regocnizable part of present serbian traditional costume, with specific horn-like ending .( Klyun we say in serbian..it means ending of bird's head..)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opanak
http://www.folklorsrbija.org.yu/galerija/opanci.jpg
http://www.nurdrakce.co.yu/ulaz/proi.../suveniri.html
http://www.kudcukarica.org.yu/images/opanak.jpg


http://www.kurir-info.co.yu/Arhiva/2...24062006.shtml


http://www.naiveart.org.yu/images/bi1210.jpg
http://www.barikada.com/slike03/let3_uTZ03.JPG


http://www.opanci.com/




Same case on Hittis another relief: Birdlike Winged Gods:



Also last King of Hittitts Empire (in 13.century BC)







And today is almost 4000 years passed from begining of Hittis's empire, or cca 3000 years from the end of H.Empire...

http://shop.oaza.co.yu/user/include/etno/images/it ems/nosnja_sumadija_4.jpg[/url]

From Hatusha, first capital of Aryian's land

******

A brief history of Hattusha/Boğazköy

The first "settling in" around Boğazköy took place in the 6th millennium BC during the Chalcolithic period, when small widely scattered hamlets appeared most particularly on mountain slopes and rocky outcroppings.

Late in the 3rd millenium BC, towards the end of the Early Bronze Age, a Hattian settlement developed, marking the beginning of continuous occupation at the site. The Hattians, native Anatolians, called their town Hattush.

During the Middle Bronze Age the Hattian occupation grew into a city of such significance that a Karum was established here in the 19th and 18th centuries BC - a trading post of Assyrian merchants who had come from Assur. With their caravans of donkeys they transported goods to and from Mesopotamia, and along their route they also dealt in local Anatolian products, thus stimulating a certain "globalization". It was these Assyrian traders who first introduced writing to Anatolia.

The ruins excavated demonstrate that the city of Hattush was burned down in a great conflagration around 1700 BC. Responsible was King Anitta from Kussar, who also put a curse on the site. But already by the second half of the 17th century BC the temptation to settle here again had obviously become overwhelming, for a Hittite king had indeed chosen the site as his residence and capital. The Hattian Hattush was now the Hittite Hattusha, and the king took the name of Hattushili, or "one from Hattusha." This is the beginning of the story of the Hittite capital and the Hittite Royals - until now, 27 kings are known by their names.


A stele with the representation of a warrior in a short skirt and horned pointed hat, holding a lance, was found in one of these. The hieroglyphics above the raised hand of the warrior indicate that the sculpture portrays the Great King Tudhaliya. Because the horns on the headgear symbolize the power of a god, the stele apparently depicts a king already departed from this world and raised into the heavens.

The Old Hittite city comprised an area of almost 1 square kilometer; it was protected by a massive fortification wall. On the high ridge of Büyükkale was the residence of the Great King, and the city lay on the slope below to the northwest, reaching to the valley below. Perhaps as early as the 14th century BC great effort was spent on the development of the Upper City. This area south of the Old City was included into the city limits through the erection of a new 3.3-km long defense wall with several monumental gates, thus bringing the size of the city to 182 hectares. Within the wall a great many large structures were built, among them many temples - houses for "the Thousand Gods of the Hatti Land".

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see Hatusha place today:
http://www.hattuscha.de/pix/02-001-720x490.jpg

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Great King Tudhaliya
on a stele from a building near Temple 5
http://www.hattuscha.de/pix/tour/02-080-216x299.jpg

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Even SUN GOd wear a OPANCI :

Chamber 1 was not decorated, but Chamber 2 was adorned with reliefs that have survived in excellent condition thanks to the blanket of earth under which they lay protected over the millennia. On the back wall stands a sun-god in a long cloak and slippers curling up at the toe (Fig.93). Identified by the double winged sun positioned over his head, he holds a curved rod in his left hand, and in his right-as befits a giver of life-a somewhat modified version of the Egyptian ankh-the emblem of life.

The Sun God in relief on the back wall of Chamber 2
http://www.hattuscha.de/pix/tour/02-096-250x373.jpg

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The relief to the left represents Shupiluliuma II, the last of the famous Great Kings of Hattusha and the ruler responsible for the construction of the chamber. He is portrayed in the short skirt of the warrior, a sword in his belt and a lance in his right hand; a bow is slung over his shoulder. On his feet you can make out slippers curling up at the toes, and on his head he wears the pointed hat typical of divinities; this one has three horns at the front. Before him are his title and name, inscribed in Luvian hieroglyphics. The Great King apparently had himself portrayed as a god even though he was still alive and active at the time, as is confirmed on the wall opposite.

http://www.hattuscha.de/pix/tour/02-097-260x356.jpg

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http://www.transanatolie.com/English/TransAnatolie %20Tours/Cultural%20Tours/Arrival-Istanbul/The_Shadow_of_Hitites_Empire.jpg

http://www.thebackpacker.net/images/tours/Hattusas.jpg

The Hittite Rock Sanctuary of Yazılıkaya

The rock sanctuary of Yazılıkaya ( = rock with writing) lies nestled between rock outcroppings at the foot of the high ridge east of Hattusha.


I dont know what present turkish name means on turkish language, but in serbian Yazik or Yezik is tongue and in the same time language...Russian call his revived oldfaith today Yezichestvo or Yazichestvo,,priest is Yazichnik.. We had this terms, but we dont use it today..


I understand this turkish term as "Where Language is..Written Knoledge..Oral Knowledge.."when I think on serbian.With russian termin it is "Place where Priest are all together" !


In contrast to the temples within the city, the two rooms of this sanctuary (Chambers A and B), hemmed in by natural rock faces up to 12 m high, lie open to the skies. Although the site has been in use since the 15th century BC at least, not until the 13th century did the long procession of gods and goddesses take their place here, chiseled onto the rock faces by Hittite sculptors. It apparently represents the "House of the New Year's Celebration," a House of the Weather God where festivities were held to honor all the pantheon at the coming of the New Year and the beginning of spring.


On the left side we have male deities (with two exceptions); on the right, female. They all face the opposite end of the chamber, towards which they appear to be slowly progressing; and there, indeed, is the climactic tableau: as leaders of the holy procession, the two supreme divinities, the weather god and the sun goddess greet one another.




Here is meeting of Gods ( or tall Aryians who weare OPANCI)..See better:



Surounded by lions and wolfs..(Wolfs are most adorable mithological animals in serbian old faith.., lions exists in some old songs-even though lions are not present in Balcan halfisland..probably as memories on earlier time..)

The Supreme of it- was called Jajas...
On serbian language it is very close to Jaje, Jajce ( = egg) and Jajas+t means ( in chape of egg-oval one..) In plural JAJA.(eggs)

In serbian oldfaith Supreme is Rod ( who generate) and one of his symbols is Egg ( because whole Universume derived from "him")..

And twoheaded eagle is so visible - old serbian symbol known..still present in heraldic signs and Deity Serbona or MotherSva ( Mother of everything- Earth actually) in old faith...Why twoheaded? Because she is always in company by his husband (satelit Moon)God Veles..




See please my 13. post on http://panaryan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2840&page=2
and my post 31 on
http://panaryan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=586&page=4

And there are other similarities and same things in Hettits and serbian mithology, I will write from time to time on PAA.

The largest relief figure in the sanctuary stands on the wall opposite the climactic scene, at the end of the procession of goddesses. Represented here is no god, but the Great King Tudhaliya IV, directly opposite-if at a respectful distance-the meeting of the gods, as if he was paying his respects to the highest deities. For this reason as well we assume it was this Great King who was responsible for the final arrangements of the Yazılıkaya sanctuary around the middle of the 13th century BC.





And Underworl Gods also weare OPANAK, as Kings and Sung Gods and his folowers..
On the wall immediately to the right of the entrance was carved a line of gods of the Underworld. They wear shirts, belts, short skirts and shoes curling up at the toe. They each carry a crescent-shaped sword flung over the shoulder, and the horned pointed hats that identify them as divinities.


On the wall opposite the divinity Sharrumma, the patron of Tudhaliya IV, is depicted as an escort of the Great King (after his death?).

Serbian OPANAK again

Solar cult were amnog hittits God..In this relief is thundergods Teshub ( =Perun, Zevs)with his (god) relatives

1299 BC : Hittites had great battle à Qadesh (Syria today ) against Ramsès II. Cca XII Hittites Empire disapperd under invasion of "Sea people" ( peuples de la mer)
till 711 year BS some hittits cities survived ,,Marash is most famouse (Assyrians came in 711, today in Siriya or Southeast Turkey Iam not sure)
1200 BC: Achéens (Ahaians - ancient greek people ) destroyed Troya II (decribed in Homer's Illiyada


http://antique.mrugala.net/Mesopotam...20histoire.htm


(two lioneheaded Gods as slavic radgost is, again in OPANAK and with Three of life)


from book :HISTORY OF EGYPT,CHALDEA, SYRIA, BABYLONIA, AND ASSYRIA

By G. MASPERO,

Honorable Doctor of Civil Laws, and Fellow of Queen's College, Oxford; Member of the Institute and Professor at the College of France

Edited by A. H. SAYCE, Professor of Assyriology, Oxford

from parts: decadence fo Hittits and steady growth of the Aramean tribes,The Rise of the ASSYRIAN EMPIRE
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17326/17326-h/v6b.htm






Teshub slaying the Illuyanka

Some opinions more about Hittits:

The so called Hittite empire is that of the Chaldean/Babylonians and that is why Greek historians never mention it. We do well to recall that the Chaldeans as a tribe lived long after the fall of the Babylonian empire in the mountains of Cappadocia and Cilicia and as a class of priests continued on.(A.H. Sayce, `The Hittites: The Story of a Forgotten Empire', 1888.) At the end of the 18th century AD bas-reliefs with pictographs were discovered by travelers passing near Ivriz, on the plateau of Asia Minor. These same peculiar signs were seen in the area of Jerablus-Carchemish on the bank of the Euphrates, and later on the site of ancient Babylon and in other places. They are completely different from hieroglyphics. It was then not known which people had left them. However, mention of Kheta in the texts accompanying the bas-reliefs of the battle of Kadesh, in the poem celebrating this battle, and in the Egyptian text of the peace treaty stimulated conjecture about the identity of the rivals of Ramses II in the struggle for dominion over their world. Who were the `Ht', Kheta ]Breasted, `Records', V. III, Sec. 306">', Kheta. See also Brinna Otto, `Geometrische Ornamente auf Anatolischer Keramik', Mainz, 1976)? An Egyptian hieroglyphic word which according to Budge means `a rectangular plot of land', while the verb form `khetta' means `to wander about the earth'. In the 1870's a solution was offered and accepted. Kheta were the Hittites, occasionally mentioned in the Scriptures. It was the phonetic similarity of the names that prompted this identification. William Wright, a missionary in Damascus, came to this conclusion and also decided that the mysteries signs are Hittite writings.]W. Wright, `The Empire of the Hittites', London, 1886. ] Since almost nothing was known of Hittite history, it was like resurrecting an empire from oblivion, and it was called `a discovery of a forgotten empire.' These were sensational matters in the 1880's. The Egyptian documents mention Hatti.. [size=9]Later authors do not attempt to explain why `Hatti' should be the same as `Hittite'. We read, "The term Hittite derives from the place-name Hatti used for the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of central Anatolia. The Hittites, who were Indo-Europeans referred to themselves as Nešites, or people of Neša (Kaneš), a tradition supported by the evidence of Hittite names in the tablets found at Kaneš." [G.McMahon, `The History of the Hittites', BA, Jun 1989, p. 65.) [/size]

[size=12][size=9]On serbian Neshi (people)is very close to Nashi (=Our or Ours), town Nesha (Nash0Ours), language neshit's (nash or nashki ot nashinsky on serbian)- Vila's comment
[/size][/size]

[size=12]In a double identification the Kheta of the Egyptian annals and the Hatti of the Assyrian annals were said to be the Hittites of the Scriptures, and the monuments with the pictographic script were attributed to them. Among these monuments are pieces of sculptured work, especially relief cuttings in rocks. "Those who studied these rock reliefs in the middle of the 19th century viewed them in the context of the History of Herodotus. The nearby Halys River suggested to them that the processions were the meetings of contemporary kings of perhaps Lydia and Persia. The headdresses were different for each side with tall Phrygian mitre caps on the left and Persian tiaras on the right. They might be either Alyattes and Cyaxares (Lydians and Medes) or Croesus and Cyrus (Lydians and Persians). [/size]

Qouted tall Phrygian (Brigian)cap is very close to oldserbian priests cap (Volh or v'lv on oldserbian) and present serbo-vlasians cap that we call "shubara".

Halys river (greek term) today Turkish people call Red river.

Lydia ( greek term) I explained before: Liudi or Lyudi means on serbian "people".(Ljudi on latinic serbian letters,Људи on cirilic serbian letters)

`The club and battle-ax appear for the first time on the Assyrian sculptures in the war pictures of the grandson of Sennacherib, who probably was the last king of Niniveh, and therefore the contemporary of Cyaxares.' [ Barth, Berlin 1859] These views were held before confusing Egyptian chronology was applied.

Double battle ax is symbol for oldserbian deity Serbona ( tohether with his Husband Moon God Vlas), also main atribut og paganic serbian and oldslavic Radgost and other mithyc wariors..I believe that Armenian and Iranian female deity also have this symbol.

"When scholars refer to the Hittites, they will distinguish between the Hittite empire of the 14th-13th centuries BC (and their ancestors) and the so-called Neo-Hittites of Eastern Asia Minor in the 9th-7th centuries BC. Conventional Chronology sees the Neo-Hittites as successors of the empire following a `dark age' hiatus of several centuries. The Synchronized Chronology reverses this sequence with the Hittite Empire succeeding an earlier age of city-states sharing a common `Khaldi' or `Hattic' culture. In the Hittite Empire can be seen a stage of art at the end of a long history of evolution. The attempts by art historians to describe this evolution with the Empire period as the beginning has been a tortured exercise: the starting and ending points are the same."[Roger Henry, `Synchronized Chronology' SC, N.Y. 2003, p. 174. David George Hogarth, `Kings of the Hittites', London, 1924. Otto Puchstein, `Pseudohethitische Kunst', Berlin, 1890, p. 13-22. O.P., `Die Bauwerke', Leipzig, 1912, p. 2, transl. by V. 4, 146. SC, p. 180f.]

. Among their gods, called "Khaldi" gods - a term associated by some scholars with the (Chaldeans) who lived in Pontus - was Teisbas, the Hittite Teshub[Ben-Hadad II (806-)], and it is scarcely to be doubted that his cult was borrowed from the more ancient people.'" [CambridgeAncient History (CAH)', Vol. III, 9]

Chaldi or Khaldi, Khaldey - I dont know possible term in serbian..It reminds me of Kal-ushi, misterious european people still living in Hindu-kush mountain (present Pakistan) ..But, serbian glorify hid Sungod with name Khol , dance in circle round= Kholo and still have pagan festivity on December 24/25th (Sun born ) with people kholonada, named Koledars, Kolindars or Kalindars or Kalinars somewhere..Maybe there are some conection here, I am not sure.

First name Hat, Hats which is mentioned about Hittits Empire, on serbian is similiar to oldfashion term 'At ( in daily speaking we rarely use letter H, only writen) or Hat in poetry, and means "horse", in plural "'Ati" = horses.

Boghazkoi, place about 140 km east of Ankara, where was first Hittits capital-Hatusha[size=12][size=9] , in title has serbian root Bogh which means God - and from the point of view of aboreegenes, Hatush tall and white people were really Gods for them. In plural on serbian Boghy= Gods or Boghovy=Gods, till Boghat= wealthy man (as spiritualy or materialy -never mind), Boghat+stvo ( wealthyness, richness)... Bogha(z)kale will be Fortress of Gods (Bozhya =God's), because serbians use (oldfahioned now) word kale for Fortress, same as present Turks.

all quoted texts are from
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/hittites.html#dte
[/size][/size]

I will write more about Asia Minor, but I don't want to forget this:

Originally Posted by Xerxes Aryana Yes, Srbuhi, Srpuhi, Surpuhi is an Armenian girls name meaning holy woman. Also Surp or Surb means holy, sacred. I hink there is a connection between Surb and Serb...

Thanks, Xerxes...

SARBAR?
If I am good informed, in old Persian SAR means head,headship, seniority, priority, independence...
till persian BAR (or BARE) means part of, snip, segment,coupon, steak.

This term SAR+BAR on persian Milosh Milojevic ( hystorics from 19.c.) explains as cut-throat (cutter of heads) or Supreme Mighty man who is cutter ( conected to mighty, couragge,and force)

Cutter of what?
Serbian mithology explains that: most of todays Gods were Azhdaha-killers in past.
In medieval times existed Order of Dragon'skillers...LLionheaded Radgost's cult (cutter with double ax) or latter...George's cult .. or every serbian hero... are silent echoe of very great battle between People and Reptyls in very far past...perhaps Vedic times..In todays serbian language every semit, black one, or enemy from South is still corellated with First Big Killed Azhdaya, as "product of creation by Azhdaha" ( in different terms Ala or Hala= snake, Alamunya =snake with thunderbolt as weapon,Lamnya, Azhdaha, Azhdaya, Dazhd,..even lizard is named d'azhdevnyak...)

Azdaha is persian termin, serbians now say Azhdaya....
English language don't separate "Azdaha" from "Dragon" but older languages know the distinct between these two ancient enemies, sorry ( maybe basilisk?).

Also, it was usual custom of serbian warriors in past to cutt enemies head, for reason of security and for some others reasons.One Patriarch in medieval times tried to forbidde that, but custom is custom. One Serbian proverb shortly say:It should be like that.

This explanation of persian meaning for Sarber can explaine holity of armenian words, also as view at prehystoric Serbs as Deity in Hittits Empire..Also this explanation could be add to term of Srbinda (chief of Serbs) mentioned in Hindu Vedic Books, as warrior against Indra....
If First batlle was so important for all mankind, because Invasion was terrible, and some "Serb"- man saved all of them in far past..then it is no miracle that all tribes remember, less or more, his name ..conciously or in old toponyms..
Latter I will add some linguistical explanation from other languages..

I find one map with toponims Serb- around Teheran:



And I am very curious about batlles against Azhdaya that Persians remember ( on Mt.Damavand) or Armenians (on lake Van)- is it possible that some name of first
Slayer of a Dragon was in relation to term Ser,.Sorb, Surb??

MANDALS, SERBIAN FAIRY AND PERSIAN QUENN

One more conection (of many) between Iranian and Serbian:

The Vila, or Willi or Wila ((VEE-lah) or Veela, are the Slavic versions of nymphs(fairies), who have power over storms, which they delight in sending down on lonely travelers. They are known to live in meadows, ponds, oceans, trees, and clouds .Healers and singers, they are bridge between human beings and Gods...
They posses eternal youth and beaty ..and usually they are friendly towards humans. Similar name, The Vilia is the Celtic version of this woodland spirit.

Named vilas in Serbian mythology are: Andresila, Andjelija, Angelina, Djurdja, Janja, Janjojka, Jelka, Jerina, Jerisavlja, Jovanka, Katarina, Kosa, Mandalina, Nadanojla and Ravijojla.. Vila's are in older songs from non-human world, but after,( under christianity influence and represing )- they became (in songs) lonely skilfull girls who can be married even for mortal man.I want to compare one of them to persian queen...

VILA MANDALINA
is very smart women, inventive, wicked and sophisticated.

.From one song: Заигра се бан Секула..................Lord Sekula start to play game б'јелом вилом Мандалином...........with white fairy Mandalina Утече му б'јела вила................... But Fairy escaped from him к ведру небу под облаке..............to clear sky, under clouds. И намаче бан Секула,................ Bat Lord Sekula successed и намаче мудру видру...............successed to reach wise Fairy те увати б'јелу вилу..................so he caught white Fairy. "Немој мене, бан Секула,----------"Don't ,Lord Sekula немој мене сабљом сјећи,.........."Don't cutt me by your sabre казаћу ти троје биље:...............I will tell you (secret about)tree plants: једно биље, бан Секула,............(with help of)first plant, Lord Sekula родиће ти љуба сина;...............will help you that your love will born a son to you друго биље, бан Секула,............(with help of)second plant, Lord Sekula бићеш јунак у дружини;.............you 'll be hero in your gang; треће биље, бан Секула,...........(with help of) third, Lord Sekula моћи ће ти сабља сјећи!"......... .your sabre will be unconquerable!" Girl MANDALINA in folk songs is always smarter then sisters or mother..and always have lucky in life or in marriage.. Куд је јела гране разгранала......How fir-three have widen its branches Туд је мати ћери разудала:........so the mother have married her daughters: Мару мору, Јелену Дунаву,........Mara to the Sea, Yelena to Danube Мандалину белом Варадину.......Mandalina to white Waradin (Varazhdin probably) Једну дала за млада волара,..First daugter was married for young ox-warden, Другу дала за млада писара,...Second daughter was married to young penman Трећу дала за млада малара...Third one to young parget-man ( painting walls). The first and second are very unhappy because their husbands work day and night, but Mandalina is very satisfied: "Фала, мајко, што си ме родила,....Thank, mother, you gave to me life Још ти фала што си ме удала -..and more thanks , you married me Што с' ме дала за млада малара!..and because you married me for parget-man Обдан мала, обноћ са мном спава!.He paints whole day, but make love with me whole night!

Term MANDA(hip.) or MANDALINA has various meaning in serbian language, specially in highlanders customs:

MANDALINA
1)name
2)constant income
3)black kerchief for married woman (virgo tacta, ones who knows secrets of life)
4)term for fewfruits around Avgust 4th, festivity of Perun's sister, later Sv.Magdalina
MANDAL
1) surname
2) woden or iron shelf for insurance of house ("Zamandali vrata" -close the door well)
3)latch- metal shape for insurannce of house door
4)kind of fancy-work (kneedlework) for line-wrap parts in wholeness
5)dishes for cooking and preparing food
MANDAL
everything (shape, paint, drow) what is hanging and swinging in home- space
MANDARA
kind of food (popara, tzitzvara) from corn(brwd)+ and milkcheese-usual sheperd's food
MANDRA
1)kind of food ( kachamak) for sheperds, from corn+water+cheese
2)place where sheperds rest themselves during day ( bachiya)
MANDAK
part, peace from whole (piece of bread)
MANDATI (verb)
1)to eat
2)to have sex
MANDAT (MANDATOR)
interval of time in which one choseen human is intermediate between low and high social levels (man-intermediate), like emisarry in Parliamnet for ex.
MANDA
1) hip. from Mandalina, Magdalena,Mandalena
2)name
3) often in folk brain-twister where solution is:
* axe (symbol of matriarchat, womens rulers, queens)
* colander, cullender (to separate health from ill)
* capstan(to bring clear water from deep whole in ground)
* pap, mamma (transferor of mothers imunity to child during lactation)
4)oldfashioned term for: with ,while, altought ,although ,though, albeit ,since, , if ,nevertheless notwithstanding ,tho' even ,notwithstanding that (again something that separate one from another)

n Vedic scripts and teachings MANDALA is visual symbol (usually cross in a circle) for meditation- gateway to astral plain...as serbian Mandalo or Manda= cullender is,or every Vila is.

In persian history, it is well known name of QUEENN MANDANA.

An old Iranian portrait of Cyrus the Great
....was the founder of the Persian Empire under the Achaemenid dynasty. As leader of the Persian people in Anshan, he conquered the Medes and unified the two separate Iranian kingdoms...Cyrus is the first king whose name was suffixed with the word "Great", or Vazraka in Old Persian, (Bozorg in modern Persian), a titulary style adopted by his Achaemenid successors including Darius the Great, Xerxes the Great, et al. He is considered by most Persians as the Father of Iran...

And famouse QUEEN MANDANA was mother of Cyrus, Father of Iran.

Once upon a time lived in Persia, a beautiful woman named Mandana. She lived long before the talks of the one thousand and one nights. She lived long before the time of Cleopatra, the Queen of Egypt. She lived even long before Roxana, the Persian wife of Alexander the Great. Mandana, was a queen. She was the queen mother of Cyrus the Great. She lived as long as 2600 years before our times. Cyrus was also a wise ruler who was loved by his subjects. He encouraged them to live at peace with each other, toil together and be tolerant of each other's culture and traditions. Under his rule, the Scythians, the Perse, the Medes the Assyrians, the Egyptians and all other nations, 17 in all, lived at peace and worked and progressed. That is why Cyrus was called Cyrus the Great. A scroll edicted by him told us all that. It is still kept today in Persia as a priceless relic: the Persians believe thus, that Cyrus created the first united nations 2500 years ago. Queen Mandana, the mother of Cyrus the Great, was also loved and cherished by her subjects. She was above all a woman, intelligent and perceptive, aware of all refinements and sophistications, that as far back as then, has established women as the real power behind every great man.

http://www.mandana.com/files/history.html

And again, history of old Persia, Asia Minor (Lyudiya) and Serbs seems to be extremely close..

According to Herodotus, Mandane was born to Astyages, King of Media and son of Cyaxares the Great, and Princess Aryenis of Lydia, daughter of Alyattes II, the father of Croesus of Lydia. Shortly after her birth, Herodotus reports that Astyages had a strange dream where his daughter urinated so much that Asia would flood. He consulted the magi who interpreted the dream as a warning that Mandane's son would overthrow his rule. To forestall that outcome, Astyages betrothed Mandane to the vassal Achaemenid prince, Cambyses I of Anshan, "a man of good family and quiet habits", whom Astyages considered no threat to the Median throne. Astyages had a second dream when Mandane became pregnant where a vine grew from her womb and overtook the world. Terrified, he sent his most loyal court retainer, Harpagus, to kill the child. However, Harpagus was loathed to spill royal blood and hid the child, Cyrus II (Cyrus the Great) with a shepherd named Mitridates. Years later, Cyrus would defy his grandfather, Astyages, leading to war between them; a war that Cyrus would have lost, but for Harpagus' defection on the battlefield of Pasargadae, leading to the overthrow of Astyages, as the dream had forecast. --- Xenophon also gives reference to Mandane in his fictional novel about Cyrus, Cyropedia (The Education of Cyrus). In this story, Mandane and her son travel to Astyages court (most likely as hostages), when Cyrus is in his early teens. Cyrus charms his grandfather, who includes the boy in royal hunts, while Mandane returns to her husband in Anshan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandane_of_Media
http://www.livius.org/as-at/astyages/astyages.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astyages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_II

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Originally Posted by Herjän correct me if im wrong, but i think there is city in Serbia called "Indjia"... i got cousins there

No, you are not wrong. One little town in northern Serbia, near to Belgrade in fact, is still Indjija (Indyiya)..It has about 26ooo Indyians there



Some hotels also (one is in Montenegro) are named Indyia
http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Eur...odina/Indjija/
(Some pics from Indyia in above link)
Some pics from Indyia in Serbia Photo Thread (post 152)
http://panaryan.com/forum/showthread...4226#post24226

And, even it is small town , on Juny 26.th this year, Indyians organise red Hot Chilli Pepers -alive concert: in socaled Green Fest:

http://www.redhotchilipeppers.indjija.net/home.htm
http://www.redhotchilipeppers.indjij...greenFestE.htm